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Episode 164: How to Connect the Mind, Body & Spirit with Colleen Wachob

podcast May 13, 2022

And people who aren't deeply committed to the well being world, hear about it or even hear about our pillars of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, environmental well being, they're like, Whoa, that feels like a lot. Like how do I know where to start? And the answer that I always give people is you need to start where you're going to have the biggest impact on your own health and well being and where the ROIs is the highest. And what that means for me now is, you know, so different than it was for me. Gosh, you know, 10 years ago when I had my PE, and so different from you know, every other human who's walking the earth in their different life during

Today's episode is with Colleen Walkup. Colleen is the co founder and CO CEO at Mind Body green. She graduated from Stanford University with a degree in International Relations and Spanish and spent 10 years working at Fortune 500 companies, including gap Walmart, and Amazon. In today's episode, we're diving into Collins's background, what brought her to founding the popular platform, Mind Body green, the stressors she faced along the way and how she's overcome them. And some of the tools and habits she's implemented as a busy mom of two girls to continue living her best, most fulfilled life. I know you're gonna enjoy this episode with Colleen. So let's get into it.

Welcome back to Metflex and Chill. This is your host, Rachel Gregory, and I'm here with Colleen walk cub. Did I say that? Right? You got it. Okay, we practiced like three times off air. So about with pronouncing last names. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm excited to to chat today. So we're going to kind of dive into your background, talk all about MindBodyGreen talk all about kind of how that came about, and dive into some different areas of you know, wellness, health, you know, well being, you know, how you go about your day. And yeah, before we do that, let's let's talk a little bit about your background. You know, tell us who you are, you know, your story how you got to where you are today.

Yeah, like so many people within the health and wellbeing. world, there's a really strong personal story here that drove so much of the work I do now. I'd spent 10 years in corporate 500 companies. My husband, who is the founder and CO CEO, Jason always jokes that I just missed an exon on my tour of duty. I was at Gap gap bank for eight years Amazon and Walmart for about two years each, and wasn't really fulfilled in the work I was doing. And, you know, had that quarter life crisis that you know, so many people struggle with. And it wasn't until I had a pulmonary embolism that it was the catalyst for me to just totally transform No, my work and my life's work. I had been working at my job and had a, you know, normal routine. And then on a Saturday morning, I at the time went to Tara Stiles yoga class at 11am, which was my Saturday ritual.

And I had come out of class and I was like, I'm a little out of breath. And I asked my husband Jason to meet me, in Manhattan. We took the subway back to Brooklyn and I collapsed on the subway stairs and we got out of the subway and we immediately called my general practitioner and I look back and this was obviously not the right behaviors, but I was doing anything on that call to avoid having to go to a New York City er and a beautiful Saturday. I was like, I'm fine. You know, downplaying symptoms, it's all good. And I did something I've never done that day I napped, I haven't naps since I was like a toddler, and was just really exhausted. But, you know, kind of pushing through it and making excuses to not go to the doctor. And come Monday morning.

My husband said you can't go to work unless you go to the doctor on the way. So I saw the doctor, he did some tests and was like, you have a pulmonary embolism, you know, go to the ER right now. I was so confused. I was like what is a pulmonary embolism? I was so bewildered. He he wrote it on a piece of paper for me because I think he was worried that I was going to get to the ER and just be you know, in a state of confusion. So got to the ER they did a ton of tests. And you know, they were like we've never seen someone who's alive with so many clots in their lungs. And there's not you know, a proach of let's go remove the clubs. You take blood thinners for a period of time and the clots you know, eventually hopefully as was the case with me and work themselves out.

And it was a really long process for me to feel, quote unquote normal again. And we talk a lot about this concept of invisible illness within the mind body green community. And that's exactly what it was I looked totally normal, I looked totally healthy. But I remember going on the subway and visually trying to jockey for seat because I knew it was just hard to even just stand up on a you know, ride to work without feeling a little bit winded. And we talk a lot about breath, within all things Mind Body green, and never took again for granted the ability to breathe easily and, and simply and routinely. And it was definitely one of those life changing moments. For me, I had been moonlighting on MindBodyGreen on nights and weekends, and it was the catalyst for me to, to join this movement full time. And I think that's the case with so many people in wellness, when your life's kind of going fine, you're not going to be like, oh, I'll just turn this on its head and leave this nice stable job and, and go on a much harder path. And it's a cliche, but I am so grateful that I had this experience because it has fundamentally changed my life trajectory and how I live my life.

Wow, that's, that's amazing. Do you. So tell us a little bit about you know, how it kind of got started, like, so obviously, you told us that you had this this incident. But in terms of just kind of, well, actually, before we get there, let's let's tell all our listeners or viewers if they don't know, or if they haven't heard of Mind Body green before? Can you just tell us, you know what it is what the platform is?

Yes. So I think a mind body Green is a wellness brand that happened to have started within the content and media space. And we give you the tools to live your most complete and fulfilling life, whatever that means to you. And that's done through a combination of mental, physical, spiritual, and emotional well being. So what that means in practicality is there's a website that has a ton of both this wonderful combination of science backed holistic medicine, we lean just as hard into the science as we do into the spirituality. And I think there are very few places within the world right now where you can get that duality of hey, you might need to meditate, or, Hey, you might need to go do some, you know, serious medical work. And we have a place for both points of view within it. And then we also want to give you the tools, whether that's through online education, whether that's through health coaching, whether that's through supplements or personal care. So we also have products that you letter up to these goals of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, and environmental well being.

Okay, great. Thanks for laying that out. I just wanted to make sure that everybody knew what we're talking about. So yeah, back to kind of when you initially had this kind of situation that you were dealing with, what do you feel were kind of the biggest movers that that brought you into, you know, getting past it. So whether that's from you know, things that you started doing with your nutrition or with your, you know, your exercise or like mindset practices? Is there anything that really kind of moved the needle for you to kind of get to where you are now.

Yeah, and I think when people who aren't deeply committed to the well being world, hear about it, or even hear about our pillars of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, environmental, well being are like, Whoa, that feels like a lot. Like how do I know where to start? And the answer that I always give people is, you know, you need to start where you're going to have the biggest impact on your own health and well being and where the ROI is, is the highest. And what that means for me now is, you know, so different than it was for me, gosh, you know, 10 years ago when I had my PE, and so different from you know, every other human who's walking the earth and their different life journey.

When I go back to the time of my PE, I really needed to get more in touch with my spiritual side. You know, I was super stressed. I did things that were super outside of my traditional comfort zone in terms of astrology and healers and light connecting back to myself looking at my stressors, scheduling, vacations, you know, some of those things that can be overlooked by someone who's you know, very committed to work in life and I needed to be a little bit easier on myself I need to just think about my breath and nasal breathing because we breathe so many times every day. And you know how you breathe this is so much of an indication of your health and well being so for me it was about leaning more into the spiritual being a little bit easier on myself, being more mindful of stress and anxiety triggers and being really thoughtful about the type of life I wanted. difficult to beat.

You know, I said earlier that my buddy green wants to help you live a complete and fulfilling life. And I think kind of the hardest part is understanding what that means to you, there's not one definition of success when it comes to health and well being. And for me, you know, at that point, it was really about living, you know, with more ease, and learning to embrace that and learning to embrace the things that I can't control. You know, fast forward a decade plus. And now when I think of what's going to have the biggest impact on my own health and well being I'm very passionate about something that affects disproportionately women. But this idea of sleep and sleep retraining. My my two year old, my five year old have this wonderful ease with which they fall asleep and wake up every night they they are like clockwork, with how they go to bed and how they wake up, I do not have that same ease in my life. And that's why I use the word retraining, because you know, you are sleep trained as a child, and then you have to learn how to cultivate a life that sets you up for a good night's sleep at night.

So I think especially with women and you know, the the changes that we have in our bodies through through our life's journey, what is that lever that's going to have the biggest impact on your own health and well being changes throughout these moments in life? Mm hmm.
Yeah, I completely agree. So are there any specific like tools or habits that you've built around sleep that have helped you?

Yes, it is definitely an area of deep focus for me. And I probably tried everything. And one of my doctors over the years, Leland Stillman has really woken me up to the importance of light, and how it can impact how you start your day and how you end your day. So how you start your morning is going to have such a big impact on your bedtime and sleep that following night is not something you can start thinking about it oh, now it's time for my nighttime routine. So getting that light exposure, as soon as you wake up in the morning, even if you're like me and live in Brooklyn, and you know, that maybe needs you need to stand outside the window and go on a walk around the block. But really being thoughtful and intentional about it is so important.

And being mindful of caffeine and how you metabolize it, my husband can have a coffee at three o'clock and go to sleep without any issues. I am not wired that way. And whenever I read guidelines around caffeine, I always kind of give it a chuckle. Because it's clearly not speaking to people who are caffeine sensitive, like I have to cut off my caffeine at 10am. If I want to go to sleep the next that night, being really thoughtful to about the energy, the movement that you choose to incorporate into your day, and how your body responds to it. You know, there's times in life where maybe you need some cardio and then there's other times when your body is really craving something softer or more recovery. And if you go to a high intensity workout, do you leave? And then you're you're revved up and you've gotten a second wind? Or is it something that you can then decompress after?

And I think you have to be really thoughtful and about understanding how your body reacts to all of these. And then as it comes to nighttime routine, I'm very thoughtful about light exposure again, caffeine intake, understanding any anxiety triggers, and you know, yeah, it's not a good idea if work email stresses you out to open your laptop at nine o'clock at night. And how do you cultivate a life where you don't have to do that? And, you know, then understanding what brings you joy to you know, here's a place where I do break the rules and that I love watching TV in bed which I feel like is one of those things that sleep doctors will tell you not to do. But I I do with blue blocking glasses on to minimize the light exposure and TV brings me a lot of joy. And I think a lot of times within the wellness conversation, you know, we lose kind of sight of you know, what are those moments of joy and happiness in our day to day lives. We definitely don't want to restrict that we want to maintain that. And so I do watch TV in bed. I've got my blackout shades. And I also take my buddy green sleep support which is magnesium farm farmer GABA and she's up every night, which has been the drug free solution that helps me fall and most importantly stay asleep.

Hmm, I love it. I love all those things. And I love that you said that. You know you watch TV in bed because that's one of those things do that. You know, like you said I recommend to my clients when we're talking about all kind of go I have like a sleep checklist on my website. I'll link in the show notes if anybody's listening but basically kind of going through like all the things right and starting off with like the big movers first, like cutting off caffeine, you know, by noon, you know, setting up your environment for success wearing blue light blockers and things like that.

But I did the same thing, like I wind down at night with watching TV, that's how I enjoy, you know, enjoy my life, like I, you know, have a hard day work, and then I wind down, right, but I do, like there are things that you can do, especially with the technology we have these days with the blue light blockers, you know, sound reduction, things like that, that can all help. So it's just kind of being mindful, right and understanding that, you know, there there probably has, there might be I have to be shifts that you make, but you can always, you know, use the technology we have and just kind of create different ways to make sure that you're optimizing your sleep, because I think that's something that, especially like nowadays, a lot of people are struggling with, especially a lot of the clients, I work with females who were kind of just like, go go go all day, and it's hard, it's hard for us to kind of just like, wind down at the end of the day, right. 100%.

So yeah, all great tips, I do have a question because I want to kind of go back to the topic of just stress from from work, right. So I work with a lot of female clients who are in obviously, different jobs, and some, some of the clients I work with are struggling in the areas of, you know, these jobs that they're in that they might not necessarily love. But there's really like no other alternative for them at this moment. So they have to find ways to kind of make it work, they have to find ways to, you know, help with that stress reduction helped to, you know, they have goals, whether that's with their body composition, or, you know, training in the gym and things like that. And there's some, like kind of underlying stress that that's happening with within their jobs within like maybe a place where they don't necessarily want to be right now. But they don't know how to get out of it.

So like, Do you have any advice for, you know, thinking back to yourself, you know, 10 years ago for where you at with all the stress that you are under? We kind of talked about this a little bit. But do you have any other kind of like advice in terms of, you know, the biggest things that made a difference for you?

Yeah, when when I look back on myself, and just how frustrated and stuck, I felt, one of the biggest kind of sucks is that I really wish I could have been more kind of with myself, I put so much pressure on myself to you know, be fulfilled in a job and check all these boxes. And I think we want it all to happen at a point in time, you know, when we are super excited about our career trajectory. And it's a lot of pressure that I was putting on this job to care for my family, especially when my husband was full time MindBodyGreen with before we started making revenue. And one thing I like to remind people is financial wellness is a huge part of well being. So I think there's so many people who give advice of oh, just quit your job and do the entrepreneurial dream. Having a paycheck and being able to provide for you know, your healthcare, your family's well being and not have to worry about things like health insurance is just not something to take for granted.

And I know that if I'd gone on an entrepreneurial journey before, without having any financial well being it would have made this journey even harder. And it's you know, it's a very challenging and deeply fulfilling one. But it's definitely not without its challenges. And the second part of it is really to trust the process, I do think that the universe has a greater plan for us, it never quite unfold with the exact timing that you know, people like myself who are hard wired with a type of I want to do it now. And then when I look back at these jobs that I think I really struggled with from a self identity and kind of alignment of mission and purpose and value standpoint, I've learned so many fundamental skills that have helped us in building and scaling Mind Body green, so I really wish that I could have been more patient with myself. And, you know, tried to trust the process a little bit more. And I've learned about myself that, you know, stress and anxiety doesn't go away throughout my life.

You know, it just changes and I felt probably the same, you know, levels of stress in the early days of my career as I as I do now. And it's not something that I discount in any way because I think it's one of those things that can really affect your own health and happiness and that of your family of well being. But I've definitely had to adapt the ways I react to stress. I've had to get a better understanding of what my triggers are and being more thoughtful about my day planning. You know, I think there's a wonderful rise of boundaries and in this world of remote, I think you have to be even more thoughtful and intentional about it with so many people working different timezones, you're going to get emails about, about things at all hours of the night. And you can't control that. But what you can control is the time at which you choose to look at your phone and look at your laptop, and maybe you're not triggered by it, and you can be in bed at 1130 at night reading emails and responding, that's my husband. That's not me. But to the extent that you can have boundaries, around things that, you know, are triggers, whether it's emails, whether it's phone calls, or voicemails, you know, do set up a system so that you are protecting yourself from things that you know, can be triggers.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Do you have any, like specific tools or systems that that you use, you know, that you recommend, in terms of that stress management side of things, and maybe some like practical takeaways or tips?

Yeah, so I think the best tools are the ones that can truly integrate into your life. And, you know, I am a lifelong Californian who has been living in New York for 13 years. But I still think that like the DNA of, you know, what I respond to, and, and kind of how I'm hardwired is very much California. And so, being outside taking a call outside is it just feels like such a gift. In warmer weather, I love to be able to go up on our roof and take some calls and meetings up there. And I find that just that little bit of vitamin D can make something so much less stressful.

From a movement standpoint, I have totally taken down the intensity of what I do. And we're all individual in terms of you know, what our body needs, what our body needs at this stage of life. But for me, it's about slowing down and really going all in on things that are more recovery focused, where, you know, in my 20s, I was all about the power yoga, I find deep joy and going to like a yin class or something that's a lot more, you know, recovery minded these days, and then not forgetting about, you know, those those elements of joy and connecting with what, you know, your soul really responds to what brings you joy, whether it's something you know, as simple as, you know, a nightly ritual of I enjoy watching Netflix, to going at this point in time it's going sledding with my kids in the winter, or we were just in California last week and went on a waterslide. And how do you ensure that you are, you know, cultivating and calendaring, those little moments of joy in the same way that you would do all the other crap that you have to get done?

Yeah, I love that. And it's funny that you mentioned that you grew up in California and been living in New York, because I'm the opposite. I grew up in Manhattan, and I now live in San Diego. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So complete, like, swamp. So like, I couldn't understand what you're saying. But yeah, I mean, for me, like just getting out in the morning and walking. Like, obviously, it's hard to beat San Diego weather. But like thinking back to the New York days, you know, there are, you know, people talk about how the weather does affects like your like, you know, how you're feeling, depression, things like that. And it's like, such a real thing. But yeah, I can totally relate in terms of just getting out in the sun. And, like, I try to take all my my calls on walks, and just like changing little things throughout my day, that can, you know, make that do make a huge impact, you know, over time, and it's just kind of figuring out like, okay, how can I maybe tweak something to that, you know, I'm still doing what I need to do, but I'm getting some other benefit from it.

So like, for example, I'm standing right now, while I'm recording this podcast. So that's another like, simple thing that like people have a standing desk or, you know, seated or, you know, versus seated. So just like little tweaks that you can make throughout your day, I think you kind of spoke to that, which is, you know, completely agree there. Awesome. So I do want to talk a little bit about, we were talking before we started recording about some like trends, like wellness trends, and things like that we know like within the nutrition space, especially things always kind of ebb and flow like throughout the years and things like that. So kind of what are some of like the 2022 Wellness trends that you're seeing things that might be maybe good things and maybe some that might not be so good? Maybe we can talk about some of that?

Yes, so the first thing that comes to mind because it's literally affecting every single person on the planet right now, through this lived experience over the past two years is we are all dealing with some sort of collective trauma. And I'm so happy that this conversation has been normalized, but we're all carrying some sort of scar tissue, whether it's a big T, big T trauma or little T trauma, we are all carrying it. And there's this incredible book, The Body Keeps the Score and I, I've seen it in my own life, how it creeps up into, into my, into my body into my physical state. What I think is, is really good and progress, you know, coming from a place where I remember 2015 We had one partner, because why are you guys talking so much about mental health?

That's not what people want to hear about. And now you you know, you fast forward and this conversation has been normalized, you can see people talking about, about it on on tick tock, for better or for worse. But we have this collective experience that we're talking about. And, you know, just an awareness that all of these little micro traumas like none of us are walking into March 2022, right now with the right spring in our step. And we've all been impacted in some ways by the past two years. And it's, it's reassuring to me that people are starting to talk about trauma to talk about this collective experience. But I think we also need new tools to help deal with it. And there is a lot of, you know, experimentation, new tools, old tools, as well as ancient modalities that, you know, we're going back to all of us are so unique, and kind of what our body needs to help to help deal with it.

So that is, that's something impacting all of us. I think one of the other things that we see a lot of wonderful conversation around, you know, in a positive way is this idea of longevity and health span. And really normalizing it, I think when we talked about longevity, maybe even like, three, five years ago, it was something that biohackers or optimizers, or you were from Silicon Valley, and you had weird aspirations about living to be 145. But you know, now we're thinking about longevity in the, in the sense of, hey, when I'm 90, I want to be able to lift up and carry my great great grandchildren and travel and live my life in a way that you know, has a lot of joy and purpose. And how do I reasonably, you know, take steps to help do that. And so the, for me, there's a lot of overlap now, between, okay, the wellbeing, conversation and the longevity conversation, because in some ways, the goals are really the same. And there's a democratization of sorts of the conversation.

And I think there's a lot of ways we can play in it, whether it's in a free and accessible way, which I tend to lean on a lot of the research that Dan Buettner of Blue Zones has done, where it's about having community having purpose, having multi generational living, if you're drinking, it's drinking with family, and probably not by yourself alone in your your apartment or home. But then you can, if you're going for that extra, you know, 10% or 5% of optimization, you can lean into some of the testing that people like insidetracker and lots of other companies are doing. So I'm excited that we're talking about these conversations in a new way. And then you ask, what are some of maybe the less exciting are trends? I do think we are in a crisis for girls right now.

We're in a crisis for everyone. But the issue has definitely surged from a mental health standpoint for girls and well being. And I think it's particularly hard over the past two years when you have teen spending even more time on Instagram, which, for reasons we can guess, although Instagram can confirm of why spending more time on social media has a bigger impact on girls health and boys health. And there's a lot of bombardment of problematic images. And I think we have to retrain as a mother of two girls, this is very topical for me, but we have to almost retrain the youngins. That when they're looking at Instagram, it's like, it's like watching a movie. It's been stylized, there's perhaps their sets because I see a lot of value and technology and social media, but we also are very unaware of kind of the long term health effects of this generation that's grown up with this level of of involvement with it, and it causes me a lot of worry.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, just the social media side of things these days is I mean, I just think back like when I was growing up, you know, it was obviously completely different as well. But so with that, actually, I do have a question you know, for all we definitely have lots of moms listening who probably have daughters as well like how do you how do you handle that? Is there anything that you implement like within your your family, you know, guidelines or things like that within with your daughters to kind of help take them away from that.
Yeah, we are getting my daughters are two and five.

So you know, even if they are asking for phone Yeah, they're and they're definitely not getting it but you know, being really thoughtful about How I use technology in front of them is something I'm very mindful of now, if they see Mom totally, you know, going down a rabbit hole of scrolling, while Ellie or Grace are trying to talk with me, they're at the age where they know that they see that and it's, and it's problematic already. So it's been a good retraining for me of, okay, this is mom time, this is kid time. You know, this is scroll time. And when I'm with them, I'm very cognizant of the example that I need to send. And they be the phones as a way to FaceTime grandma and grandpa, and for that I'm deeply grateful for you know, especially over the past few years, and when it's been harder to see grandpa, grandma and grandpa who are outside of Los Angeles. You know, the phones aren't going away, but we definitely have to retrain how we use them.

Mm hmm. Yeah. 100%. I didn't realize your daughters are so young. So I was I was thinking like, in the like, teens, or something like that. But But no, it I mean, it starts from just like you said, like the real fun begins. Yeah. But your two year olds are already noticing, you know, that you're scrolling on your phone or something like that. They're like, Oh, what, what are you doing? So yeah, I mean, it makes sense. Right. Cool. So I do so kind of to I know, we're kind of getting short on time. But I want to just ask a few more like, just in terms of your daily, like, the way that you set yourself up for success? Do you have any, I talk about this a lot with with my clients like morning routine, like basically, like how they start their day? Is this, like you said, is so important to set the rest of the day up for success? Is there anything like that you do, particularly that you've developed over time that you found to really help you with your morning routine? Like right, when you you know, go to bed and morning? Is there something like specific routine that you follow or anything like that?

Yeah, so integration is the name of the game for me. And again, this ideal morning routine is contingent on the fact that I wake up before my kids, which doesn't always happen. And it's something I strive for, but again, not always in the car was for me, getting that light exposure, opening the curtains upon wake so that I'm you know, truly telling my body okay, now it is time to wake, it's time to bring in the sun embrace it. If I can do 10 minutes of physical activity in the morning, it's, it's such a win for the day, you don't know what the rest of the day holds for you. But getting that you know, time in for yourself. And I do think in terms of 10 to 20 minute increments, as it relates to most of my exercise. I'm doing either a yoga class from Tara Stiles, I love the Bartha and her Pilates inspired be method and using a ball. And it's a very uncomplicated morning potion.

I'm a big believer in collagen. And I'll start every morning with our collagen and a latte. My buddy greens, chocolate is my favorite flavor. And integrating that in with coffee, it's a great way to also get in protein. And I've realized as I've gotten older, I really wish in my 20s and 30s I was thinking as much about my protein intake, but just how much better I feel when I'm eating more protein. So if I could have just saved myself a lot of different, you know, different ways of eating and just hadn't honed in on that earlier, I would have saved my time myself a lot of time on the on the food front.

And then you know, we are big believers and having a ton of frozen fruits and vegetables not only is the cost amazing, and you know, you can get organic strawberries, broccoli, all the essentials that you need for smoothies, and just freeze them so that you don't have to go through complicated planning of what am I going to use this week and buying for this week, you get it once you dump it in your freezer, and then you don't really have to think about it for another for another month.

So I'm a huge believer in in present vegetables and tend to lean into smoothies more in you know, as, as the months get warmer and spring and summer and early fall, a little bit of that, you know, Chinese traditional Chinese medicine inspired philosophy of really eating with the seasons. And those are the things that you know, set me up for success, I think for it to be sustainable, it has to be uncomplicated, you know, and ideally, you know, have in an ideal world those you know, touch points of accountability is is something that your family enjoys, so that you can do it together. Because then there's probably a better chance that you're going to do it so you know, that can even be as simple as making coffee or smoothies for other members of the family because once you know they kind of become this built in accountability that will just make sure it becomes a daily staple of your life.

Oh, I love that. That is definitely a great tip. Just get other people on board because then it's something that like you said it's an accountability factor and like you're building the habits together. I love that and also Protein. We talk a lot about that on this podcast. Huge fan of that. So yeah, for sure. Awesome. Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a question that I asked at the end, put you on the spot here a little bit. Don't worry, it's not not too crazy. But is there anything that you've changed your mind about in the past year? It can be anything at all. And why? Hmm. It's a tough one.

It is a tough one. You know, I've changed mine about a lot of things. And I think, you know, gosh, one of the things that I've changed my mind on is, is the importance of face to face interactions and social connections. And I think we talked so much about the science, I think we talked so much about, you know, optimization, and, and sometimes we don't talk as much about the softer side, and I can't tell you how, as much as I love FaceTiming, grandma and grandpa having a week of human interaction, you know, telling your mom I love you and hugging her is so so much more meaningful in person than it is over over text or FaceTime. And really, we can do a lot of things digitally.

But you know, this need that we have for face to face, human interaction with physical contact has become even more pronounced for me. Ya know, for sure, I mean, especially after the last two years, I feel like everybody is probably realized that a little bit more, right, you don't know what you have until it's gone or taken away from you. That goes for anything in life, right. But especially just that, I mean, even here in California last week, we finally took away the mask mandate in like grocery stores. So I'm like, Oh, wow. Like this is? It's it's, we got so used to seeing half of everybody's face. And I'm like, Well, I can actually see people's faces now. So hopefully that sticks around for a while.
Fingers crossed. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, this is a great conversation. Do you want to tell our viewers and listeners where they can find you learn more about everything that you're doing?
Yeah, so my mighty is the best place and you know that MindBodyGreen is our handle across all social channels, and I'm calling mockup [email protected].
Awesome. I will definitely link everything in the description. And yeah, this is great. It was great chatting with you. Thank you so
much. Nice. Thanks so much for having me. Take care and be well. You too. 

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